Commons:Village pump
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October 06[edit]
Identifying Tuscany 2002 trains[edit]
also File:Arezzo station 2002 1.jpg, File:Pratovecchio-Stia station 2002 1.jpg and File:Pratovecchio-Stia station 2002 3.jpg. A picture gallery of the electric locomotives would be usefull, for people who dont have an extensive knowledge of the Italian locomotive types, as identification numbers offer little guidance. Smiley.toerist (talk) 08:47, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- Found: is Category:LFI EABiz 7–9 in a new livery.Smiley.toerist (talk) 12:25, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
October 10[edit]
Nagorno-Karabakh village name categories all being changed into Azerbaijani[edit]
So there is an issue with the village names of the Nagorno-Karabakh region that Azerbaijan blockaded for the better part of a year, then attacked, forcing the local Armenian government to fold and the Armenians to flee. So all of the villages have both Armenian and Azerbaijani names, and although most of the villages were all or vastly Armenian populated even before the conflict re-emerged in the 1980s, all of the category names are being changed to the Azerbaijani names, which the newly fled locals and Armenians in general are not always familiar with, and even non-Armenians who may know one name or the other probably cannot type in Azerbaijani to write Daşbulaq. This in my opinion is a type of disenfranchisement being done to the Armenians from the region, and a purposeful policy by the Azerbaijani government of erasing any trace of Armenian history or habitation there, which eventually gets carried out by users here for whatever their own reasons (be it the desire to organize things a certain way, or other reasons). In any case, I think the easy solution for this issue is to include both names, so that either name will be useful in finding what you're looking for. For example, what I just did with "CategoryːDaşbulaq (Astghashen)" and "Çanaqçı (Avetaranots)". Or I guess we can have a dual categorization system for settlements of Nagorno-Karabakh. Can we get some kind of discussion going and find a practical solution to this issue so that there is an actual policy in place we can refer to instead of changing things around or people just not knowing what to look for? Thanks, --RaffiKojian (talk) 04:43, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Usually when a category can go by two different names that are both correct, one of them will be turned into a category redirect for the other (see COM:REDCAT). Category:Astghashen is a redirect to Category:Daşbulaq, so if someone was looking for Astghashen and added their pictures to that category, it would show up at Daşbulaq as a subcategory. Putting both names in a category name isn't really how things are done on Commons, as far as I know. ReneeWrites (talk) 08:53, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- I can see how in most circumstances that would make sense, but in a case like this where there is a government that is trying to wipe out the name used by locals, and there is a battle on which name to use, and the only people born and raised there may have never even heard of the Azerbaijani name, I hope that the idea that being inclusive of both names would be a better solution for this circumstance. RaffiKojian (talk) 09:16, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note Category:Donostia-San Sebastián, about a major city in Spain. That category uses the Basque name first, then adds the Spanish name second. It is unusual to do it that way on Commons, but not unheard of. However, this has been done as a result of a more or less peaceful solution, not because one side military conquered the city from the other. With conquest, we usually use the name of the most recent conqueror because that is usually the most used name - but that con be nothing other than convention. In this case here I would prefer a consensual solution, and maybe like the Basques did it. --Enyavar (talk) 10:33, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- That's an interesting example, thank youǃ I personally think the Basque solution is certainly better than what is being done now. RaffiKojian (talk) 13:21, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Basque is an autonomous region of Spain and the Basque names are recognised alongside the Spanish ones. This is not the case with Azerbaijan. — Golden talk 19:35, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- So if there can be a policy for the Basque names, there can be one for Nagorno-Karabakh, which also presents pretty special circumstances I think. RaffiKojian (talk) 20:13, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Basque is an autonomous region of Spain and the Basque names are recognised alongside the Spanish ones. This is not the case with Azerbaijan. — Golden talk 19:35, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- That's an interesting example, thank youǃ I personally think the Basque solution is certainly better than what is being done now. RaffiKojian (talk) 13:21, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Note Category:Donostia-San Sebastián, about a major city in Spain. That category uses the Basque name first, then adds the Spanish name second. It is unusual to do it that way on Commons, but not unheard of. However, this has been done as a result of a more or less peaceful solution, not because one side military conquered the city from the other. With conquest, we usually use the name of the most recent conqueror because that is usually the most used name - but that con be nothing other than convention. In this case here I would prefer a consensual solution, and maybe like the Basques did it. --Enyavar (talk) 10:33, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- I can see how in most circumstances that would make sense, but in a case like this where there is a government that is trying to wipe out the name used by locals, and there is a battle on which name to use, and the only people born and raised there may have never even heard of the Azerbaijani name, I hope that the idea that being inclusive of both names would be a better solution for this circumstance. RaffiKojian (talk) 09:16, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- These locations are within Azerbaijan, and the country doesn't acknowledge any names for these settlements other than the official ones. Prior to Azerbaijan regaining control of the region, the consensus was to use de facto names. Hence, when the village was under Armenian control, its category name was Armenian. But this is no longer applicable, so maintaining an unofficial name as the category name, especially when most of these alternative names were not widely used to begin with, doesn't seem logical. — Golden talk 17:47, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Yes indeed, the exact problem is that Azerbaijan not only "does not acknowledge any names for these settlements other than THEIR official ones", they have a policy of eliminating everything to do with Armenians possible, from the complete destruction of every possible monastery and cemetery of Armenians in Nakhichevan to the renaming of Armenian villages in Nagorno-Karabakh to Azeri names, even if a single Azeri has never ever lived in it. Does that seem "logical"? Armenian names are used by the people who have always lived in those villages, and they should continue to be used in Armenian villages. You have been spending weeks completely eradicating Armenian names and regions, and I am not interested in supporting such a whitewashing of my people off the face of Wikipedia or Wikimedia. There is a precedent and it is totally fine. This site has a robust format that allows both names to be used, and there's no need to disenfranchise the actual people who the villages are most relevant to because of Azerbaijan's policy of hate. RaffiKojian (talk) 19:41, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- We're not here to right great wrongs. While I understand and empathize with your cause, we adhere to a predetermined protocol in Commons. As Enyavar highlighted, we typically use the name of the most recent conqueror following a conquest. In this case, Azerbaijan is the most recent conqueror. If we were guided by "justice", we wouldn't have categorised former Azeri-majority villages controlled by Artsakh under new Armenian names they were assigned by Artsakh. However, that was the practice for many years. — Golden talk 19:46, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- They also said, that can be nothing other than convention. There is no reason not to use both names, other than to erase the Armenian name and to disenfranchise them. I think your actions on these three categories I have worked on show you are not especially interested in a discussion in any case, you are even calling it vandalism for me to include an Armenian name at all, even next to an Azerbaijani name, while participating in this discussion. I think in any case this is a pretty unusual situation and that a slightly accommodating solution will make all of the files related to Karabakh both much easier to navigate/find and inclusive, with no downside. RaffiKojian (talk) 19:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- I called only this edit of yours "vandalism" because you attempted a speedy deletion of the correct category version, intending to retain only your preferred version. Don't put words in my mouth. — Golden talk 20:04, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, you did so just moments after you put a speedy deletion tag on my category. So we are here to discuss what the "correct" category is. RaffiKojian (talk) 20:11, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- I called only this edit of yours "vandalism" because you attempted a speedy deletion of the correct category version, intending to retain only your preferred version. Don't put words in my mouth. — Golden talk 20:04, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- They also said, that can be nothing other than convention. There is no reason not to use both names, other than to erase the Armenian name and to disenfranchise them. I think your actions on these three categories I have worked on show you are not especially interested in a discussion in any case, you are even calling it vandalism for me to include an Armenian name at all, even next to an Azerbaijani name, while participating in this discussion. I think in any case this is a pretty unusual situation and that a slightly accommodating solution will make all of the files related to Karabakh both much easier to navigate/find and inclusive, with no downside. RaffiKojian (talk) 19:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- We're not here to right great wrongs. While I understand and empathize with your cause, we adhere to a predetermined protocol in Commons. As Enyavar highlighted, we typically use the name of the most recent conqueror following a conquest. In this case, Azerbaijan is the most recent conqueror. If we were guided by "justice", we wouldn't have categorised former Azeri-majority villages controlled by Artsakh under new Armenian names they were assigned by Artsakh. However, that was the practice for many years. — Golden talk 19:46, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Yes indeed, the exact problem is that Azerbaijan not only "does not acknowledge any names for these settlements other than THEIR official ones", they have a policy of eliminating everything to do with Armenians possible, from the complete destruction of every possible monastery and cemetery of Armenians in Nakhichevan to the renaming of Armenian villages in Nagorno-Karabakh to Azeri names, even if a single Azeri has never ever lived in it. Does that seem "logical"? Armenian names are used by the people who have always lived in those villages, and they should continue to be used in Armenian villages. You have been spending weeks completely eradicating Armenian names and regions, and I am not interested in supporting such a whitewashing of my people off the face of Wikipedia or Wikimedia. There is a precedent and it is totally fine. This site has a robust format that allows both names to be used, and there's no need to disenfranchise the actual people who the villages are most relevant to because of Azerbaijan's policy of hate. RaffiKojian (talk) 19:41, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- The correct and usual way we handle changes of place names on Commons is, in this case, keep the Armenian names as subcats of the Azeri names and put files made during the Armenian times under the Armenian names.
- Horrible to see some people above echoing Azeri govt propaganda to wipe out Armenian history. Butcher2021 (talk) 21:35, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- I don't think a user with 9 total edits in Commons should be telling anyone what the correct way to handle place names on the site is, much less label someone as "echoing goverment propaganda" simply for following Commons guidelines. — Golden talk 21:44, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Well, it seems likely nobody else is going to chime in, so let me give/summarize 3 suggestions for consideration. As I've said a few times, this wiki is a robust format and we can easily incorporate both names so that it is easy for everyone to find what they're looking for. I am fine with various approaches to this, including what Butcher 2021 suggested, what I originally suggested which was Azeriname (Armenianname) and I have been thinking that alternatively we can just put both village names as separate categories for each village. Then the Azeri village name category would go under the larger Azeri regional category like "Villages in Khojaly", and the Armenian one would go under "Villages in Askeran" and then the Armenian one would stop at the next level of say "Villages of Nagorno-Karabakh". That would make it simple to categorize and find villages and regions for both parties. This last option, which I had not suggested before is actually my favorite option. Simple, clean, and only doubling up at the village level. RaffiKojian (talk) 05:30, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- Just my opinion, but naming the categories something like Azeriname (Armenianname) just seems weird. There's basic rules about how to name categories and the don't involve naming them multiple things or doing it in a way that incorporates multiple subjects. What it does intitled though is going with which name is popular and if you look at how much each name is used there's a clear winner, which probably depends on the circumstances but is most likely Azerbaijani, and that's fine. But putting multiple languages in the name of the category would just be obtuse and unhelpful. The same goes for having categories for both names, which would just lead to people being confused as to what images should go in which and in the best case lot of duplication, if not also files being put in one of the categories randomly when they don't belong there. Again, the rules are clear that there should only be a single category per subject.
- Well, it seems likely nobody else is going to chime in, so let me give/summarize 3 suggestions for consideration. As I've said a few times, this wiki is a robust format and we can easily incorporate both names so that it is easy for everyone to find what they're looking for. I am fine with various approaches to this, including what Butcher 2021 suggested, what I originally suggested which was Azeriname (Armenianname) and I have been thinking that alternatively we can just put both village names as separate categories for each village. Then the Azeri village name category would go under the larger Azeri regional category like "Villages in Khojaly", and the Armenian one would go under "Villages in Askeran" and then the Armenian one would stop at the next level of say "Villages of Nagorno-Karabakh". That would make it simple to categorize and find villages and regions for both parties. This last option, which I had not suggested before is actually my favorite option. Simple, clean, and only doubling up at the village level. RaffiKojian (talk) 05:30, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- I don't think a user with 9 total edits in Commons should be telling anyone what the correct way to handle place names on the site is, much less label someone as "echoing goverment propaganda" simply for following Commons guidelines. — Golden talk 21:44, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- An alternative though would be to create redirects for the least popular names. That's what we do in all other cases and there's no reason to make an exception just for this instance. Especially if it involves turning category names into a complete translation string or whatever of the locations name. Like where would end at that point? In the United States there's places that are named in English, Spanish, and Native American depending on the time period and who your talking to. It would be ridiculous to have a category name that amounts to "English (Spanish) (Native American) (Whatever else)" though. You have to draw the line at English if it's the most popular even if that puts people who speak other languages. -Adamant1 (talk) 05:44, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- The thing is that your examples are quite different from the situation I'm describing. There aren't American settlements where all the inhabitants call the place some other name, and have used it exclusively both in their lives and even officially in their government for decades.
- An alternative though would be to create redirects for the least popular names. That's what we do in all other cases and there's no reason to make an exception just for this instance. Especially if it involves turning category names into a complete translation string or whatever of the locations name. Like where would end at that point? In the United States there's places that are named in English, Spanish, and Native American depending on the time period and who your talking to. It would be ridiculous to have a category name that amounts to "English (Spanish) (Native American) (Whatever else)" though. You have to draw the line at English if it's the most popular even if that puts people who speak other languages. -Adamant1 (talk) 05:44, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- I the case I'm describing, many Armenian villages have had one name for hundreds of years, and those were the names at the municipal and regional level, and no other name was used, and now that they've been ethnically cleansed, suddenly this foreign name that in practice has not been used in decades, if ever, should be canvassed across this site? These are places that don't get written about a lot in the western press obviously, but the name Kyatuk (where I was uploading some of my photos to) has some other name that so far as I can tell was imposed by Azerbaijan at some point when they weren't even in charge there, and now suddenly the name should be something that nobody who is from Kyatuk for well over a century has even heard? I can't even tell you what it is, I'd have to look it up. So that's why I'm saying, this is a pretty unique situation and the renaming is part of the effort to stamp out the Armenian identity and history there. Personally I'd suggest what I suggested on Wikipedia long ago, which is that for villages that were all or majority Armenian before the first war, we use the Armenian name, and villages that were all/majority Azeri before the first war we use the Azeri name. In time we can see what happens with the region and if a different solution makes sense, but again, just putting both names either in the way you did not like, or as a mirrored category structure (which I also suggested) seems like an easy win for anyone who is looking for files related to these settlements. RaffiKojian (talk) 11:28, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- I don't think it's that different to the example I gave you in America. The Native America's called specific places something for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. They were subsequently ethnically cleansed and pushed out of those areas, but often still call them by their original names. Whereas, the white European settlers who live there now don't. But it wouldn't work to just go with Native American names regardless of if it's "right" or whatever because know one outside of a small minority uses them. Plus, it's not our job to use the platform as a forum to right great wrongs or whatever by changing everything to their original names before colonialism happed. No offense to locals, but at the end of the day this is a global project and categories need to be findable by people who aren't part of an extremely small minority of local towns folk.
- I the case I'm describing, many Armenian villages have had one name for hundreds of years, and those were the names at the municipal and regional level, and no other name was used, and now that they've been ethnically cleansed, suddenly this foreign name that in practice has not been used in decades, if ever, should be canvassed across this site? These are places that don't get written about a lot in the western press obviously, but the name Kyatuk (where I was uploading some of my photos to) has some other name that so far as I can tell was imposed by Azerbaijan at some point when they weren't even in charge there, and now suddenly the name should be something that nobody who is from Kyatuk for well over a century has even heard? I can't even tell you what it is, I'd have to look it up. So that's why I'm saying, this is a pretty unique situation and the renaming is part of the effort to stamp out the Armenian identity and history there. Personally I'd suggest what I suggested on Wikipedia long ago, which is that for villages that were all or majority Armenian before the first war, we use the Armenian name, and villages that were all/majority Azeri before the first war we use the Azeri name. In time we can see what happens with the region and if a different solution makes sense, but again, just putting both names either in the way you did not like, or as a mirrored category structure (which I also suggested) seems like an easy win for anyone who is looking for files related to these settlements. RaffiKojian (talk) 11:28, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- And just an FYI, it's not that I don't like your suggestions, I could really care less, but they don't work and go against the policy about how to name categories. The same goes for the suggest that the name should be based on if the town was majority Armenian before the war or not. What matters is if it's majority Armenian now and if the name is recognized outside of the village. Not what the prominent ethnic group in the area was before the 90s. If I'm looking at the right village Kyatuk only has 6 people anyway. Regardless of if it's "right" or not, it would be ridiculous to change the name of the category just for those six people (who probably don't even use Commons BTW) at the cost of literally everyone else. --Adamant1 (talk) 14:41, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- Well in fact nobody ever will look up Kyatuk, much less an Azeri, that was just a random example. But I disagree with you on 2 points. 1) You're saying there are places in American that Native Americans call one thing, and the white settlers who live there now call another. In this circumstance, there is nobody else that lives there. They were just cleansed 2 weeks ago and there is no new inhabitants, Azeri or otherwise, nor is there any plan for such so far as I know. 2) You are assuming the world is looking for these villages under the Azerbaijani names, but in most cases I don't think they are, but that is irrelevant since my double category solution includes both. So I'm not sure why you say "it's not going to work". It would work rather elegantly I think. But putting all of that aside, these categories we just changed in the past few days. I don't see why the rush to go and rename them all exclusively to names that are neither known to the locals many times, nor are they the most commonly used names in many cases. But rather than try to figure out for each and every village which is the most commonly used name, why not just put two categories for each village, and everybody finds what they want and we have a simple solution. Even Google Maps uses this same, very unique solution in Nagorno-Karabakh if you take a look. RaffiKojian (talk) 18:13, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- I get the feeling that the main issue here is that you're viewing Commons as similar to Wikipedia, and you believe that changing category names will have a significant effect. But Commons isn't really used for learning new information. We change category names to what the controlling party uses because people who will visit these places, take photos, and upload them to Commons will likely search for the name they saw on a road sign and that's no longer the Armenian name. To address your concern, we could include the Armenian name in the descriptions within the village categories. — Golden talk 18:32, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- If the Azeri names are now official (are they? or is this still informal?) we probably have to use them. But, yes, every category for a place that also has a well-known Armenian name should have an {{Ar}} template with the Armenian name, and should have a redirect from an Armenian-language category name. - Jmabel ! talk 18:39, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- I've applied Jmabel's suggestion to the following category as an example: Category:Badara. I've included descriptions in three languages: English, Azerbaijani, and Armenian. The Armenian description uses the Armenian name for the village, and a redirect from the Armenian name to the category also exists: Category:Patara, Nagorno-Karabakh (Category:Patara is already used for a village in Turkey in this case). I don't know Armenian, so I used Google Translate but I believe RaffiKojian does know it, so I would appreciate his assistance with the translations. — Golden talk 09:36, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- @RaffiKojian: is this solution acceptable to you? I know you don't love it, and I don't blame you, but it feels to me like the best way to follow Commons' rules and still not lose the Armenian names. - Jmabel ! talk 17:56, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- It's true I don't love it. I have made a tweak (also in the Badara category) which will make it at least a fair bit more manageable/livable for me. See what you think. I created a new category which Badara will fall into called "Settlements of the former Askeran Region", and that falls into the new category "Settlements of the former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast". It still will be extra work for many users to figure out the names of the villages in each category that they want to visit, but at least having them all in one place helps a little. And still not sure why the Basque model is not usable here, and why there's so little flexibility when the wiki allows so much robustness, but anyway, here we are. Oh and also I assume there will be no problem with adding the transliteration of the Armenian names as I have done in Badara, so that if someone types them in Latin characters they come up in a search. RaffiKojian (talk) 04:28, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm uncertain about the necessity of a category for something that no longer exists (re: Settlements of the former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast and Settlements of the former Askeran Region). Following the same reasoning, we could create categories such as "Settlements of the former Russian Empire" or even "Settlements of the former Persian Empire", both of which controlled the territory of these villages at some point in history. This makes no sense imo. However, I won't debate this further. I'll begin applying our agreed-upon version to all other village categories. — Golden talk 16:18, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- In theory, cats for photos of anything permanent in any place should at minimum be for the smallest available jurisdictions the places were in at the time of photography, de jure, to facilitate questions of which copyright rules were in effect at the time of photography. We can have cats for de facto control to ease navigation, too, but that should not affect copyright. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 17:56, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm uncertain about the necessity of a category for something that no longer exists (re: Settlements of the former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast and Settlements of the former Askeran Region). Following the same reasoning, we could create categories such as "Settlements of the former Russian Empire" or even "Settlements of the former Persian Empire", both of which controlled the territory of these villages at some point in history. This makes no sense imo. However, I won't debate this further. I'll begin applying our agreed-upon version to all other village categories. — Golden talk 16:18, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- It's true I don't love it. I have made a tweak (also in the Badara category) which will make it at least a fair bit more manageable/livable for me. See what you think. I created a new category which Badara will fall into called "Settlements of the former Askeran Region", and that falls into the new category "Settlements of the former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast". It still will be extra work for many users to figure out the names of the villages in each category that they want to visit, but at least having them all in one place helps a little. And still not sure why the Basque model is not usable here, and why there's so little flexibility when the wiki allows so much robustness, but anyway, here we are. Oh and also I assume there will be no problem with adding the transliteration of the Armenian names as I have done in Badara, so that if someone types them in Latin characters they come up in a search. RaffiKojian (talk) 04:28, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- @RaffiKojian: is this solution acceptable to you? I know you don't love it, and I don't blame you, but it feels to me like the best way to follow Commons' rules and still not lose the Armenian names. - Jmabel ! talk 17:56, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- I've applied Jmabel's suggestion to the following category as an example: Category:Badara. I've included descriptions in three languages: English, Azerbaijani, and Armenian. The Armenian description uses the Armenian name for the village, and a redirect from the Armenian name to the category also exists: Category:Patara, Nagorno-Karabakh (Category:Patara is already used for a village in Turkey in this case). I don't know Armenian, so I used Google Translate but I believe RaffiKojian does know it, so I would appreciate his assistance with the translations. — Golden talk 09:36, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- If the Azeri names are now official (are they? or is this still informal?) we probably have to use them. But, yes, every category for a place that also has a well-known Armenian name should have an {{Ar}} template with the Armenian name, and should have a redirect from an Armenian-language category name. - Jmabel ! talk 18:39, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- I get the feeling that the main issue here is that you're viewing Commons as similar to Wikipedia, and you believe that changing category names will have a significant effect. But Commons isn't really used for learning new information. We change category names to what the controlling party uses because people who will visit these places, take photos, and upload them to Commons will likely search for the name they saw on a road sign and that's no longer the Armenian name. To address your concern, we could include the Armenian name in the descriptions within the village categories. — Golden talk 18:32, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- Well in fact nobody ever will look up Kyatuk, much less an Azeri, that was just a random example. But I disagree with you on 2 points. 1) You're saying there are places in American that Native Americans call one thing, and the white settlers who live there now call another. In this circumstance, there is nobody else that lives there. They were just cleansed 2 weeks ago and there is no new inhabitants, Azeri or otherwise, nor is there any plan for such so far as I know. 2) You are assuming the world is looking for these villages under the Azerbaijani names, but in most cases I don't think they are, but that is irrelevant since my double category solution includes both. So I'm not sure why you say "it's not going to work". It would work rather elegantly I think. But putting all of that aside, these categories we just changed in the past few days. I don't see why the rush to go and rename them all exclusively to names that are neither known to the locals many times, nor are they the most commonly used names in many cases. But rather than try to figure out for each and every village which is the most commonly used name, why not just put two categories for each village, and everybody finds what they want and we have a simple solution. Even Google Maps uses this same, very unique solution in Nagorno-Karabakh if you take a look. RaffiKojian (talk) 18:13, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- And just an FYI, it's not that I don't like your suggestions, I could really care less, but they don't work and go against the policy about how to name categories. The same goes for the suggest that the name should be based on if the town was majority Armenian before the war or not. What matters is if it's majority Armenian now and if the name is recognized outside of the village. Not what the prominent ethnic group in the area was before the 90s. If I'm looking at the right village Kyatuk only has 6 people anyway. Regardless of if it's "right" or not, it would be ridiculous to change the name of the category just for those six people (who probably don't even use Commons BTW) at the cost of literally everyone else. --Adamant1 (talk) 14:41, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- There are Category:Constantinople, Category:New Amsterdam. They are not redirects to Istanbul or NYC.
- Files that are created when the villages were Armenian do not directly belong to the Azeri-titled categories.
- On the other hand, people trying to erase Armenian history should stop right now. Butcher2021 (talk) 17:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- +1 Lupe (talk) 17:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- You can't seriously be comparing New Amsterdam vs New York to this. It's interesting how this user, who has only made eight edits outside of this discussion, managed to find and comment on this thread, especially considering their last edit was seven months ago. — Golden talk 18:16, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- Why not compare? These are two very large, historic cities, which have categories with their prior names. And I'm asking for essentially the same thing, and am being told it's just not the way things are done around here. And yet... it is? And someone else mentioned something about this too. All of that was totally dismissed, while it turns out that it is quite normal here, and what I was suggesting is not even really new? Ooooookaaay. And personally I find it quite interesting that you've twice now pointed out how few edits that user has, and now implied so far as I can tell that maybe I summoned them. That's a hard no. But thank you Butcher2021 for pointing out these rather significant precedents (I mean, it can't get a whole lot larger than those). I don't know if everyone telling me that it was not standard policy here knew about this or not, but yeah, let's revisit this, shall we? I'm happy to put my photos, that I took, and I uploaded, back into the original category names that I created, which in fact appear to be the correct names for them after all. RaffiKojian (talk) 19:15, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- There's a notable historical distinction between New Amsterdam and New York. The former was a modest coastal Dutch settlement, while the latter is a contemporary American metropolis. It's not reasonable to expect images of the initial settlement in New Amsterdam to be categorized under New York. Separate article even exists for New Amsterdam on the English Wikipedia. The only thing that's changed about these small villages you're arguing about is the de facto ownership. The essence of the villages and their structures remain the same, regardless of whether they are controlled by party A or B tomorrow. Take a look at a picture of New Amsterdam vs New York and then take a look at a picture of Kyatuk vs Ağgədik (spoiler: nothing has changed in pictures of Kyatuk/Ağgədik). — Golden talk 19:38, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- I am being told that the Basque solution to the naming shouldn't work for us because "reasons". That the New York and Istanbul solution shouldn't work because "reasons". But despite the fact that I've explained the special circumstances of this situation, a few of you refuse to agree because of, well, "reasons". We have two very good examples of how it can work, and other proposals, so I don't see why we can't implement our own solution here, just like there are special solutions for those other two cases, and just like Google Maps has implemented for Nagorno-Karabakh. It's very clear that we can use a solution with both names, without doing any harm whatsoever, and that it's not some kind of extraordinary, unprecedented solution. It would have practical value for me and everyone else who has ever lived in or visited these places, while having zero downside. My "reasons" are quite valid as well you know. RaffiKojian (talk) 07:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- There's a notable historical distinction between New Amsterdam and New York. The former was a modest coastal Dutch settlement, while the latter is a contemporary American metropolis. It's not reasonable to expect images of the initial settlement in New Amsterdam to be categorized under New York. Separate article even exists for New Amsterdam on the English Wikipedia. The only thing that's changed about these small villages you're arguing about is the de facto ownership. The essence of the villages and their structures remain the same, regardless of whether they are controlled by party A or B tomorrow. Take a look at a picture of New Amsterdam vs New York and then take a look at a picture of Kyatuk vs Ağgədik (spoiler: nothing has changed in pictures of Kyatuk/Ağgədik). — Golden talk 19:38, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- Why not compare? These are two very large, historic cities, which have categories with their prior names. And I'm asking for essentially the same thing, and am being told it's just not the way things are done around here. And yet... it is? And someone else mentioned something about this too. All of that was totally dismissed, while it turns out that it is quite normal here, and what I was suggesting is not even really new? Ooooookaaay. And personally I find it quite interesting that you've twice now pointed out how few edits that user has, and now implied so far as I can tell that maybe I summoned them. That's a hard no. But thank you Butcher2021 for pointing out these rather significant precedents (I mean, it can't get a whole lot larger than those). I don't know if everyone telling me that it was not standard policy here knew about this or not, but yeah, let's revisit this, shall we? I'm happy to put my photos, that I took, and I uploaded, back into the original category names that I created, which in fact appear to be the correct names for them after all. RaffiKojian (talk) 19:15, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- I know this is slightly offtopic, but I'm not sure what is happening: yesterday there was a mass-speedy-deletion of categories named after "Republic of Artsakh", while today I see mass-speedy-deletions of categories named after "Nagorno-Karabakh Republic" while the "Republic of Artsakh"-Categories were restored. I can not find a CfD besides Commons:Categories for discussion/2020/11/Category:Nagorno-Karabakh? --Enyavar (talk) 17:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
[edit]
Hello, This photo was taken in 1944-45 so it should be public domain, but The National World War II Museum sells a license for the high resolution version. Artanisen (talk) 20:35, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
- Anyone is perfectly entitled to sell for money an asset that's also legitimately available for free from elsewhere. Also anyone wishing to use it is welcome to obtain it from a free source, such as Commons. Part of our broad role is to explain this to consumers. Andy Dingley (talk) 00:34, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- The museum is fairly generous, you can download it as a 2.49 mb jpeg image for free, thats fairly high resolution IMO!--Broichmore (talk) 09:07, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Artanisen: Yes, it should be public domain per COM:JAPAN, The National World War II Museum is perpetrating copyfraud in this case. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 05:32, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- I do not see the organization making a copyright claim on their website, so not copyfraud. They are just charging for hires images, organizations have server/bandwidth costs, just like us. --RAN (talk) 02:14, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
October 11[edit]
Hi, This page wasn't updated since 8 September 2023. I contacted Steinsplitter, the bot owner, on 24 September but no answer. Yann (talk) 09:32, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Yann: Per Commons:Village pump/Archive/2023/09#Stalled category moves, Steinsplitter was emailed on 24 September, but has not been heard from since 12 September. Also, please merge (or delete the existing pages) for the categories you requested to be moved to existing pages on COM:CDC. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 05:44, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
Large number of fails[edit]
Hi, I get a large number of fails during upload and deletion since yesterday evening (CET). Any idea? Yann (talk) 14:12, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- I don't, but have you tried using alternative methods, like Chunked Uploader? I've found that to work when standard uploads won't. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:16, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- I can approve that there are issues right now, especially for files above 2 GiB and sometimes very small files (stash error) --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 17:03, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- I always Chunked Uploader for files above 40 MB, and that's where it fails today (phab:T328872). There are also a large number of failed deletions, see phab:T348667. Yann (talk) 17:23, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- Revert and manual revert are also affected by this phab:T348375. GPSLeo (talk) 18:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- I always Chunked Uploader for files above 40 MB, and that's where it fails today (phab:T328872). There are also a large number of failed deletions, see phab:T348667. Yann (talk) 17:23, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
- There are also problems with Pattypan uploads recently. It might be related... — Draceane talkcontrib. 07:22, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Does anyone know the fix for this. I cant see the thumbnail or the image? If I were to change the file size, I can upload over image, then I can see the thumbnail and the image, for the second upload, and confusingly the thumbnail and image for the first. Must be a better way. This is two days running this has happened. --Broichmore (talk) 11:59, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- I reuploaded it, but the issue remains. It is indeed a MediaWiki bug. All thumbnails are OK, except 640 × 443 pixels. Yann (talk) 12:28, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- I forced the creation of a 650px thumbnail, and it looks OK to me now. Yann (talk) 12:41, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- I have the errors especially for files above 700 MiB still (at least often)--PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 19:03, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- I forced the creation of a 650px thumbnail, and it looks OK to me now. Yann (talk) 12:41, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- I reuploaded it, but the issue remains. It is indeed a MediaWiki bug. All thumbnails are OK, except 640 × 443 pixels. Yann (talk) 12:28, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Does anyone know the fix for this. I cant see the thumbnail or the image? If I were to change the file size, I can upload over image, then I can see the thumbnail and the image, for the second upload, and confusingly the thumbnail and image for the first. Must be a better way. This is two days running this has happened. --Broichmore (talk) 11:59, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- Still a daily occurrence. --Broichmore (talk) 16:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- Was it possible to achieve some progress here? Many users are experiencing errors in uploading, thumb generation etc. --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 15:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- Happened again. I also successfully loaded an image, but still got an error message Could not acquire lock. Somebody else is doing something to this file. Yes, me.
- I have reported this bug. --Broichmore (talk) 17:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- Uploading of large files works for me again --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 16:34, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Was it possible to achieve some progress here? Many users are experiencing errors in uploading, thumb generation etc. --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 15:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
October 12[edit]
Gift card pseudospam[edit]
Have seen multiple users uploading banner ad type images in the past couple of days ("Do you qualify for a free phone?", "Your opinion is important!", "You have been chosen to participate in our Loyalty Program for FREE!"), in each case with a short "asdgjhg" type description and no link attached.
- Sabrinamodnzu (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log)
- Samarajack (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log)
- ERHERHR10 (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log)
(Samarajack and ERHERHR10 are definitely uploading the same images.)
Is this a bot spam scheme - but where the bot is either broken, or intending to return and add the links later on if the images aren't deleted (so that we're less likely to blacklist the domain)? A human spammer trying to use Commons as an image host for embedding offsite? Or something else? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Belbury (talk • contribs) 11:50, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
- My bet is on a human spammer. 1) the file names have repeating characters as if someone is smashing buttons on a certain spot on the keyboard - truly random looks different. 2) They are using UploadWizard. It might be possible to create a bot to use that interface for uploads, but it would be so much easier to just use options for Commons:Command-line upload instead. El Grafo (talk) 12:04, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
.svg/15px-Pictogram_voting_comment_(orange).svg.png)
Comment I blocked Sabrinamodnzu as VOA, Samarajack for reuploading files after warning, and ERHERHR10 for socking. Yann (talk) 12:16, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
October 14[edit]
Uncategorized categories[edit]
- Does anyone know what process (a bot, I presume) fills Special:UncategorizedCategories and who might be responsible for it? Is this documented somewhere?
- Does anyone have any idea why some categories that have had parent categories for years show up there? (e.g. Category:November 2011 in the United Arab Emirates.
Jmabel ! talk 21:09, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- At the risk of making some errors, 1.) special pages are just populated by the MediaWiki software itself on a semi-regular (weekly?) basis and 2.) this kind of thing usually happens due to caching errors and if you purge the page, it should fix it (...?) and these kind of things are much more common when categories are transcluded from templates. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:43, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
- Presumably if the page itself has had the parent categories visible for months (which in this case it has), purging won't change anything, but I'll try it and I guess in a couple of days we'll see. - Jmabel ! talk 01:16, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Jmabel and Koavf: When categories are transcluded from templates, the templates should also be purged if purging the categories didn't work. Null editing may also help, but that is not logged, either. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 03:01, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- Presumably if the page itself has had the parent categories visible for months (which in this case it has), purging won't change anything, but I'll try it and I guess in a couple of days we'll see. - Jmabel ! talk 01:16, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
October 15[edit]
openfoodfacts.org[edit]
This website states: Products images are available under the Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike licence. They may contain graphical elements subject to copyright or other rights, that may in some cases be reproduced (quotation rights or fair use). Is this enough to upload copyrighted packaging images from there onto Commons or it's a kind of Commons:License laundering? Examples: File:Huile olive citron de menton.jpg; File:Tom yum pate.jpg; File:Sorbet calamansi.jpg; File:Kumquats confits.jpg; see more: Special:LinkSearch/*.openfoodfacts.org. Komarof (talk) 07:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- There are countless photos of packaging on WMC so this would be a broader question and probably has already been discussed. I think all those images should be in Category:Images from Open Food Facts and it would be nice if you added them to there. There are also similar populated cats for similar products/food-related open content websites. Prototyperspective (talk) 10:55, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- These would be OK if not cropped or focus on the copyrighted label. I nominated 2 files. Yann (talk) 11:02, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- I added all I could find to Category:Images from Open Food Facts as suggested above. Probably, there are some more focused on the copyrighted label ones now. --Komarof (talk) 11:41, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- I wouldn't go quite as far as to call this license laundering, but it's a sloppy way of handling licensing on the part of Open Food Facts and it should be approached with caution. Open Food Facts may have received a valid license for the photograph from their contributors (or perhaps an invalid license, if users copied an image from another web site), but they certainly didn't create the product labels, so they cannot license that content for reuse if it's above the threshold of originality. Omphalographer (talk) 00:25, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
Hi, How should we name this category? Both French and English Wikipedia use en:Échallens while the German one uses de:Echallens. But this is a French speaking region. Yann (talk) 12:09, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Yann: Whatever is decided here, please make room for one or the other with a merge so that COM:CDC can be processed by mere mortals. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 18:04, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- French Wikipedia appears to use both spellings, but it's unclear which referenced it uses. It even mentions some references with "Échallens" that are actually using "Echallens".
- "Echallens" is the locally used spelling (see logo to the right). When searching for references with Yann, we noticed official Swiss topography goes with "Echallens" and blog he found has "Échallens". I'd stick with the local spelling. Enhancing999 (talk) 12:23, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- Accents are usually omitted with capitals only, that's why the logo has no accent, but accents should be used whenever possible. Yann (talk) 12:47, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- It may be a rule they follow on French Wikipedia, but not by locals (or the Swiss Federal Office of Topography). Enhancing999 (talk) 17:16, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- Accents are usually omitted with capitals only, that's why the logo has no accent, but accents should be used whenever possible. Yann (talk) 12:47, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
File not found: /v1/AUTH_mw/wikipedia-commons-local-public.[edit]
I have found a problem with some files uploaded via the WLM greece upload form. The files look like they are not uploaded localy in Commons, like File:Ναός Αγίου Γεωργίου στο Γυμνό 1635.jpg. When clicking on the link instead of a picture there is a File not found: /v1/AUTH_mw/wikipedia-commons-local-public message. There is also an error message while publishing, local-swift-eqiad. How can it be fixed? --C messier (talk) 19:51, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- @C messier: All looks fine to me. What exactly is the URL that you are saying was problematic and gives you a "file not found"? - Jmabel ! talk 21:01, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
Cannot rotate[edit]
File:Malay dancing, KITLV 1407367.tiff cannot be rotated, perhaps because of the extention "tiff", I have tried to rename it so as to replace it rename on "jpg", it is not possible.
Question: How to rotate that pic ? --Io Herodotus (talk) 21:47, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
- The crop tool probably could have done it too: https://croptool.toolforge.org/?title=Malay_dancing,_KITLV_1407367.tiff Enhancing999 (talk) 09:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
October 16[edit]
Disclaimer for non-copyright restrictions on pictures of Greek antiquities[edit]
The question came up in Commons:Deletion requests/Acropolis photos uploaded by User:Schminnte as to whether or not a legal disclaimer similar to {{Italy-MiBAC-disclaimer}} is needed for images of Ancient Greek sites considered property of the Greek State (see also COM:NCR Greece). Basically, these images are allowable under Greek law to be posted for educational and non-commercial purposes, but commercial use requires a license from Greek Authorities. Per COM:NCR, that sort of non-copyright restriction doesn't make a CC-by-SA license invalid, but it seems responsible to flag the issue for others who might want to reuse the image. {{Italy-MiBAC-disclaimer}} provides that sort of warning for images of Italian monuments similarly protected. Thoughts and comments as to whether or not a similar disclaimer is needed for Greek monuments and antiquities would be welcomed. —Tcr25 (talk) 19:04, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
Issues regarding using the word "terrorists" in the title of two videos[edit]
Hi, I started a discussion regarding the use of loaded words in the title of two videos. Some of you may want to participate. Thank you :) FunLater (talk) 20:52, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- The question of whether Commons should be hosting graphic videos of millitant gunmen killing civilians aside, is CCTV footage really public domain in Israel? Hemiauchenia (talk) 22:40, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- There's an active discussion about whether Commons should be hosting the video: [1]
- You can probably bring up possible copyright issues there. (Edit: nevermind, you already did.)FunLater (talk) 18:03, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, the impression I am getting from the discussion is that the copyright status of CCTV is a complete mess. Having read the deletion discusions surrounding the template itself Commons:Deletion_requests/Template:PD-CCTV (which was kept in 2020, despite the very similar Commons:Deletion requests/Template:PD-recording device closing as delete in 2016) there are good reasons to think that CCTV footage is public domain some places like Russia, but there's no reason to think that this applies worldwide or specifically in the United States, as the template seems to imply, and all of the AFD keep votes are not even considering the copyright legalities and voting "keep" anyway, which is poor form imo. If the copyright status of footage is not clear, then it should be deleted. However, looking at the results of Category:CCTV_related_deletion_discussions, whether or not individual CCTV videos are deleted seems to be at the whim of individual admins. Hemiauchenia (talk) 23:55, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
October 17[edit]
Review and comment on the 2024 Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees selection rules package[edit]
Dear all,
Please review and comment on the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees selection rules package from now until 29 October 2023. The selection rules package was based on older versions by the Elections Committee and will be used in the 2024 Board of Trustees selection. Providing your comments now will help them provide a smoother, better Board selection process. More on the Meta-wiki page.
Best,
Katie Chan
Chair of the Elections Committee
01:12, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by KTC (talk • contribs) 2023-10-17 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by RamzyM (WMF) (talk • contribs) 2023-10-17 (UTC)
- @KTC and RamzyM (WMF): please, sign your posts. Also: who exactly is the author of this post? Katie, as the content states, or Ramzy, as said in the hidden HTML? And why all this? Can’t you just post these messages normally? Have you any idea how these little weird details needlessly increase the distrust some of us feel about the WMF? -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 12:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hi there. I work for the Elections Committee, a volunteer committee of which Katie is the chair. I sent this message using the MassMessage tool globally to this distribution list. The support team (listed here) authored the message with Katie's sign-off. Hope that clarifies it for you. Thanks, RamzyM (WMF) (talk) 02:17, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Your MassMessage tool should at least mimic the way posts are created normally — either by automaticly inserting a sig, as Flow does, or by at least reminding the poster before sending that a sig is missing. Speaking of Flow (or whatever it got renamed as when you guys finally pushed it onto the community after widespread disapproval and many bugs), what’s with the misthreading? -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 11:35, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not involved with the development of MassMessage (or Flow, in that regard), but I sent this message on behalf of another person, and you may notice that is not possible to insert someone else's signature in a message that you are sending, so the next best option to add the name and position of the sender and five tildes (~~~~~) to produce date and time. Should you have other solution that can "mimic the way posts are created normally", please feel free to send in my way; I'm more than happy to use it in future messages to this board. Thanks, RamzyM (WMF) (talk) 12:49, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- @RamzyM (WMF): FWIW, you could have done "~~~~ on behalf of [[User:KTC|Katie Chan]]," resulting in RamzyM (WMF) (talk) 01:12, 17 October 2023 (UTC) on behalf of Katie Chan. - 18:27, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not involved with the development of MassMessage (or Flow, in that regard), but I sent this message on behalf of another person, and you may notice that is not possible to insert someone else's signature in a message that you are sending, so the next best option to add the name and position of the sender and five tildes (~~~~~) to produce date and time. Should you have other solution that can "mimic the way posts are created normally", please feel free to send in my way; I'm more than happy to use it in future messages to this board. Thanks, RamzyM (WMF) (talk) 12:49, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Your MassMessage tool should at least mimic the way posts are created normally — either by automaticly inserting a sig, as Flow does, or by at least reminding the poster before sending that a sig is missing. Speaking of Flow (or whatever it got renamed as when you guys finally pushed it onto the community after widespread disapproval and many bugs), what’s with the misthreading? -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 11:35, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hi there. I work for the Elections Committee, a volunteer committee of which Katie is the chair. I sent this message using the MassMessage tool globally to this distribution list. The support team (listed here) authored the message with Katie's sign-off. Hope that clarifies it for you. Thanks, RamzyM (WMF) (talk) 02:17, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
IBM Research[edit]
Hi dear community!
I found the YouTube Channel "IBM Research" (https://www.youtube.com/@ibmresearch). As they have CC licensed videos, maybe there are useful contents for Wikipedia or Commons?
Greetings --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 15:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm sure any appropriately licensed content there would be welcome. - Jmabel ! talk 18:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
Please, rev del the original upload.[edit]
I cropped out likely three copyrighted paintings here [2]. --Ooligan (talk) 20:01, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
October 18[edit]
Updating[edit]
I uploaded a file for a personal project on English Wikipedia (File link, usage link). I made a more updated version later and was wondering if there was a way to update this file or if I need to upload another file. Blocky44 (talk) 07:32, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Blocky44: You could in theory use the link "Upload a new version of this file" there, but I have nominated it for deletion as OOS. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 08:54, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
Iron work categories[edit]
.jpg)
.jpg)
![[2]](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:U._S._Secretary_of_State_Antony_Blinken_meets_with_Saudi_Foreign_Minister_Prince_Faisal_bin_Farhan_in_Riyadh,_Saudi_Arabia_on_October_14,_2023.jpg){kind=link}
Some iron work creations are clearly artistic, but there does not seem to be a category for it. Some Iron gates are quite elaborate.Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- Category:Wrought iron and Category:Ironwork__Broichmore (talk) 12:25, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia logo[edit]
Hi, is there someone who can help me to create a Wikipedia logo for Dobrujan Tatar (crh-ro)?
- Wikipedia = Wikipediya
- The Free Encyclopedia = Aşîk Ençiklopediya
Zolgoyo (talk) 19:01, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
- You can make a request at Commons:Graphic Lab/Illustration workshop. I would go there and ask for File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg to be localized with the text you want to a file named File:Wikipedia-logo-v2-crh-ro.svg. -- William Graham (talk) 20:10, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
October 19[edit]
Photo challenge August results[edit]
| Rank | 1 | 2 | 3 |
|---|---|---|---|
| image |  |
 |
|
| Title | Proso millet in Zurich | Drying millet on the Bolaven Plateau (Laos) | Eat it up |
| Author | Ephramac | Pierre André Leclercq | Sneha G Gupta |
| Score | 22 | 15 | 10 |
| Rank | 1 | 2 | 3 |
|---|---|---|---|
| image | _dancers_performing_on_stage_V-P.jpg) |
 |
|
| Title | 3(+3) dancers performing on stage | Nenda & Gilewicz live in Vienna |
Dancer on stage |
| Author | Virtual-Pano | Tsui | Virtual-Pano |
| Score | 15 | 9 | 8 |
Congratulations to Ephramac, Pierre André Leclercq, Virtual-Pano, Tsui and Sneha G Gupta. -- Jarekt (talk) 01:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
Cleanup task: ALLCAPS categories[edit]
I've written a query on Quarry that finds Commons categories with ALLCAPS names which are linked to from at least one page, but where no page exists for the category (i.e. the category is a redlink):
https://quarry.wmcloud.org/query/77062
These files are nearly all miscategorized (practically by definition), and many of them are out-of-scope as well. Anyone who's interested is welcome to help clean them up by adding correct categories and/or marking files for deletion where appropriate. (There are a lot of unused selfies, for example, and those should usually be tagged as F10.) Omphalographer (talk) 02:49, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- Is there a sane way to take that output and turn it into something with links? - Jmabel ! talk 03:23, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- I don't think there's any way to generate links directly on Quarry, but I could copy the results to a temporary page on Commons. Would that be useful? Omphalographer (talk) 05:55, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
Removing no-FOP countries from Commons:Freedom of panorama/table checklist[edit]
Upon realization from Commons talk:Freedom of panorama#Belarus, it seems more practical to remove all no-FOP countries from the checklist part of the table, because those are already listed at the bottom of the table. Having them in checklist generates redundancy, and some users like Altenmann begin to ask why unimportant countries like Zimbabwe and Antigua and Barbuda are iuded yet Belarus isn't. Although in my opinion all yes-FOP countries must be included even if they are unimportant, and for no-FOP ones only selected countries must be included (100+ no-FOP compared to less than 90 yes-FOP). But if more users will continue to question why unimportant but yes-FOP countries are included as opposed to relatively-large no-FOP ones, it might be best to remove all no-FOP countries from the proper part of the table, and confine them to the list at the bottom (which also eliminates redundancy).
Ping also participants in Commons talk:Freedom of panorama/table for inputs: @Pajz, Basile Morin, Nosferattus, Davey2010, Cmglee, and Jameslwoodward: JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 02:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- @JWilz12345: Thanks for seeking consensus. I'd propose the reverse: keep the checklist part and remove the list at the bottom. The checklist part lets a reader scan it both by country and by medium.
- It's also subjective what one considers an "unimportant" country: someone from Zimbabwe and Antigua and Barbuda would object! Cheers, cmɢʟee ⋅τaʟκ 03:22, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Cmglee that may be fine but it would result in a very long checklist that may push some contents at Commons:Freedom of panorama further down, though are you ok with that? There are 200+ jurisdictions, including 197 countries which I compiled at meta:User:JWilz12345/FOP/Global statuses. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 03:31, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- My position was distorted. I didnt say that Zimbabwe and Antigua and Barbuda are unimportant. And while I am here, I agree with w:user:cmglee: two tables are confusing. I didn't find Belarus at the top of the alphabetical order and I had no idea that I have to look for it somewhere else. Altenmann (talk) 04:32, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
- My comment about these particular countries being unimportant was facetious: sorry if I caused offence.
- Is having a large table a big issue? Articles like en:Visa_requirements_for_Singaporean_citizens and en:List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_area have similarly long tables.
- If so, would collapsing the table by initial help? E.g. having sections such as A–C, D–G etc, initially collapsed. It would be great if readers interested can click a button to expand all sections, though I'm unsure how to do that. Cheers, cmɢʟee ⋅τaʟκ 09:51, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
How to add whitespace in score tag?[edit]
I added this visualisation on en:C_(musical_note)#Middle_C to help readers see the symmetrical position of the note on the Grand Staff. My drawing of a note in white to let the staff continue to the right on both staves leaves a faint trace. Would anyone know how to extend a staff without the hack?